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Mary & Elizabeth Discuss the Book
Discussion Transcript
Hello, everybody! Welcome to The Enchanted Garden Book Club. This is our final discussion for 2021. Uh, I’m Elizabeth Wilcox and this is Mary W. Jensen, and we’re gonna be discussing The Raven and the Reindeer by T. Kingfisher. I think we should just jump right in with that first question.
In what ways is this retelling similar to the original fairy tale?
This one I actually thought matched up a lot of the points. You do have the setting; it’s in the north, kind of the Finland/Norway area. Um, the characters–almost all the main characters–you can see direct, um, connections to ones from the book or, you know, ones from the original story. And just that general, the plot point journeys, the basic ones.
Elizabeth:
Yeah, and just to clarify because I’m realizing, uh, I did not say: This is- The original fairy tale is Hans Christian Andersen’s “The Snow Queen.” Uh, and, so–also to clarify–you may not have heard of T. Kingfisher (or you may have); it is a pseudonym for Ursula Vernon. Um, and so this is a retelling of “The Snow Queen.” Uh, I agree this one is actually quite similar in that there’s a- you can very much tell at every step of the way ‘oh, this is from this part of the original story,’ ‘that character is this character from the original story.’ Um, I think the changes are going to be interesting to note when that question comes up here soon, but the setting, the characters, a lot of the details about the Snow Queen herself are there, uh, right down to the- Gerta and Kay have- live with their grandparents. You’ll notice in the original fairy tale: no mention of mom and dad, just grandma. Only grandma is mentioned in the novel retelling here, too, which I thought was a nice small touch. Um, there’s a few figures that exist in the original fairy tale that don’t show up, but I think everyone who shows up in this tale is in the original fairy tale, including the raven and the reindeer.
Mary:
Mhm
Elizabeth:
One notable difference that I guess I should probably have saved for question two, um: I say the raven is from the original tale; technically, it’s a crow in the original tale, but it–you know–it’s a- an intelli- highly intelligent black bird, so… either way, I- there’s-
Mary:
Yeah, still that correlation, yeah
Elizabeth:
A highly intelligent black bird that can talk to humans is present. So, I think that counts. Um, any other ways I’m not thinking of that the retelling like matches up with the original tale? It’s- It’s pretty darn close.
Mary:
Yeah. Like, even a lot of the magic that was used, like talking to plants and animals, was- was in there.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. Yeah, like, uh, that- the base elements that Kingfisher uses here to build her novel are a hundred percent analogs to original components. Uh, it’s more that she pruned things out, I think, of the original tale
Mary:
Mhm
Elizabeth:
than that she shoved things in. Um, which leads us to question number two
How are these two stories different?
I think, yeah, you really led into that well with the pruning because like it’s so unusual: she actually removed things that didn’t feel necessary. We did not get that strange story about the hobgoblin and the- the shards of ice or glass.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. Oh, the hobgoblin who is the devil.
Mary:
I’m like, wait, this has nothing to do with the actual Snow Queen. It’s a strange introduction to this story.
Elizabeth:
It’s an excuse for why Kay is attracted to the Snow Queen that- you can tell that T. Kingfisher, she was just like, ‘um, actually, boys kind of are dicks without magical mirrors, sometimes. So, I don’t think we need that.’
Mary:
Yeah. Just made it part of his character instead.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. Which I thought was, like- and- and she put it in a good way, too, like there’s that kind of fairy tale feel of maybe he was born with a little bit of ice in him, personality-wise, but it doesn’t need a sliver of a magic mirror to get lodged in there for that to be true. So, she just cut the magic mirror portion out completely; we don’t need splinters of glass falling into people’s eyes to excuse their bad behaviors, basically. She gives a little bit more culpability for decision making back to people who do cold-hearted things, I think, by making that change.
Mary:
Yeah. A little bit on the- the goblin, though, that I noticed: There is kind of a relevance, still; instead of an actual mirror that’s making people feel small and unworthy and ugly, it’s the queen’s gaze itself.
Elizabeth:
That’s true. The- the queen’s gaze does do a lot of what the mirror does for someone looking through it. You see yourself the way someone looking through the hobgoblin’s mirror would see you, is a really good- I had not thought of that, but that is actually 100% what’s happening with the Snow Queen’s kind of magic power to make you feel like shit. Which, um, can you imagine? Like, uh, honestly, like OP. Like, that’s- of course people wither under her gaze. That’s like a toxic relationship, but like blasted at you by the power of magic. That’s too much. Oh, gosh. Um.
I noticed, one of the biggest kind of plot points that is removed in this novelization is the whole thing with the princess and her prince
Mary:
Yeah, the prince and the princess. Yep.
Elizabeth:
and ‘oh, is the prince Kay or not?’ That whole chapter, that whole story within the story from Hans Christian Andersen: gone. That- We don’t need that. That’s gone. Um, going through, though, we still had the woman with the magical gar- like, the magical woman who has the garden, who just kind of wants the company of Gerta and so enchants her to stay at her house; that’s still there.
Mary:
Mhm
Elizabeth:
Uh, the- obviously, the robbers and the robber girl are still there
Mary:
and the pigeons!
Elizabeth:
and the pigeons–she even has her pigeons.
Mary:
The pigeons are also in the book. And some got frozen by the Snow Queen. Yep.
Elizabeth:
There’s still that element of ‘what is going on with these robbers in the woods that they seem to be implying that they might eat people?’ That’s still there. Uh, because the prince and the princess are cut out, Gerta doesn’t have an entire like entourage that are murdered by the robbers; she’s alone except for her raven friend, so that’s not there. Which I think helps us to- to be able to understand liking the robber girl better. Like, she didn’t actively murder anybody, um, except for another robber, come to think of it. But, you know, like, she’s not already culpable of a horrific crime, uh, before we start to to like her. So, that’s helpful. Um. What are the other big differences? I’m sure I’m not- haven’t mentioned.
Mary:
Um. Well, Kay–in the original story, he actually doesn’t choose to go with the Snow Queen; he just ties his sled up to this other sled and then it turns out it like changes into the Snow Queen, and he’s like-
Elizabeth:
Yeah
Mary:
Whereas it, in the book, it’s his choice to go with her.
Elizabeth:
That’s true. In both, Kay loves snow-
Mary:
He has more agency
Elizabeth:
-and thinks that snow is the only beautiful, perfect thing, but in this retelling he 100% chooses to go with the Snow Queen and is like ‘yes, I will climb out my window into your sleigh; that’s amazing.’ And you’re right like that’s another layer of way that Hans Christian Andersen is like- makes sure that Kay, um, even though he did become a dick because of the mirror, is definitely a victim of the Snow Queen. Like, he was abducted. He ended up- and then, and then enchanted. You know like she uh she kisses him and that makes him not notice the cold. Like, the cold is still killing him–it’s bad for his body–but because the Snow Queen smooched him he doesn’t feel it and she’s like if- ‘I can’t kiss you another time or you’ll die.’ I mean, pretty horrifying, too because I feel like Hans Christian Andersen never tells us the age of the kids involved-
Mary:
Yeah, at some points they seem very young and other times like by the end of the story like oh we’re all grown up now.
Elizabeth:
Yeah, it’s very odd in that way. I feel like, how long was Gerta looking for Kay? Because that’s very vague but- in places- because it starts out like they’re- they’re very much young. Like, they’re *kids* kids and it’s when they’re *kids* kids that the Snow Queen’s abducting Kay and kissing him in her sled and stuff, which–can you say predator? I’m just saying. Uh, not real great of her to do, whether she wants a kid or you know like it’s- it’s not clear either. Like, is she just like- why? Why is she taking Kay? What- what’s her deal? And, anyway, either way, Kay chooses to go and they’re on the cusp of adulthood in the retelling, very clearly, and that’s a- another difference. Like they’re still kids, barely, but they’re they’re very much like becoming adults over like the year or so that the story takes because that’s where they are; they’re like ‘I’m about to be old enough that I’m thinking about marriage and romance and what I’m gonna do for a living, and that makes sense at my age.’ Um, which was a nice clarification to get after Hans.
Mary:
Yeah
Elizabeth:
You- You sometimes delightful weirdo. Who knows how old they were in your story, but Gerta did like the- that’s another difference: Gerta never throws her red shoes into the river to ask the river to give. Like, Gerta makes the choice, too. Like, in the Hans Christian Andersen story, it’s very much accidental. She’s like, ‘oh, I better get my- my shoes. Oh, I’m now literally being swept down river.’
Mary:
Yeah, she’s being swept away.
Elizabeth:
‘Well, I might as well look for Kay while I’m out here.’
Mary:
‘Without my shoes.’
Elizabeth:
Right? Ah
Mary:
Freeze to death. Come on
Elizabeth:
Seriously!
Mary:
You definitely feel the cold more in the book.
Elizabeth:
Completely unprepared, completely swooshed away down the river. Uh. And in the book she’s like ‘I am making this decision to go get Kay because I refuse to believe that he wouldn’t want to be saved. The Snow Queen enchanted him; I’m going.’ Um, so both of the- like- it seems like the biggest changes are just: Get rid of some of the extra stuff that we don’t need to figure out how to make space for, especially because in that kind of fairy tale world Hans Christian Andersen builds there- there could be princes and princesses all over the place, who knows?
Mary:
and a castle here
Elizabeth:
Yeah, ‘I’ll just throw that in there!’ But you can tell that, you know, T. Kingfisher–Ursula–she- she 100% did the research for the actual area this would take place in and the cultures there and was like yeah uh we don’t need a random prince/princess to dilute that- like we’ll just stick with the actual people that would be in this actual region of the world and- we don’t- cut that out.
Mary:
Yeah.
Elizabeth:
So, she gets rid of some extra that makes it kind of less based in a real world, and then she gives Kay and Gerta and really everyone involved a lot more agency. I think are the biggest differences at core. Um
Mary:
And the religion.
Elizabeth:
Yes. There’s a lot less–
Mary:
We’re not saved by prayer.
Elizabeth:
Yes. And it’s not even that she completely cut Christianity out or something because it’s still clear that there’s the old traditional tales that like the grandparents and- and that there’s the more local ancient like religions and traditions that she’s including and describing, but then, you know, Gerta can’t think of anything else to sing and tries to sing a hymn. She, like, you can tell that it’s- yeah, they had this kind of default Christian upbringing, but it’s the actual folklore that’s local and native to them that matters for this story. Um, and both of these lead us right on into question three:
Did this retelling of “The Snow Queen” retain enough of the original story to be satisfying? Why or why not?
Um, it’s probably a strange thing to say, but I thought the book felt more “Snow Queen” than the original did. Because th- the original story just had so many little like side vignettes that felt like their own little fairy tales and had very little to do with the Snow Queen herself. I felt like she had more of a presence in the book, even though it was still Gerta’s story and journey.
Elizabeth:
Yeah, I- I feel like that rings really true. I think it’s something very interesting that Kingfisher grabs here all of the elements of “The Snow Queen” that people bother to remember, that- that are really the- the ones that- that are memorable, and says ‘I’m going to use those and ignore those other ones because Hans Christian Andersen was kind of a weirdo and I don’t empathize with or agree with all of those things being there.’ Um, I think that’s one of the weird strengths Hans Christian Andersen had. Like, yeah, he completely made up “The Snow Queen,” but on the other hand it kind of reads like he collected a story about the Snow Queen and then made it his own in how it’s written. Like, it feels kind of like a Grimm collected oral tradition tale because you know the Grimms were all like ‘let’s go ahead and make this a little bit more Christian and let’s flesh it out how we want.’ It feels like that, but you know that actually Hans Christian Andersen made the whole thing up. Like, he just wrote a fairy tale. Um, I think that’s a really cool thing that is a strong point of the Hans Christian Andersen tales is that even if you end up not really liking Hans Christian Andersen’s writing–like, “The Snow Queen” is not my favorite story to read; it’s got some weird stuff in there, it’s longer than it needs to be (it’s his longest story and it did not need to be)
Mary:
I agree
Elizabeth:
and- and the- the things he devotes the page space to are weird- weird choices uh, but at core that character of the Snow Queen and that tale of Gerta going out to rescue her best friend Kay is so memorable that that’s what we remember and think about, and that’s what makes it into all the other stories inspired by “The Snow Queen” is the Snow Queen herself and that Kay and Gerta story. Um, so I think, yeah, it- Definitely a first for the book club; this feels more like the original fairy tale than the original fairytale does.
Mary:
Mhm
Elizabeth:
So, very satisfying, I would say.
Mary:
Yeah. Definitely.
Elizabeth:
And, uh, number four, uh, naturally segued–we’ve already started to answer:
What did this retelling do better than the original?
Definitely more agency and depth to the characters. I thought it was interesting that both characters had names. A lot of fairy tales, the characters don’t have names, but we actually have the original ones from the book.
Elizabeth:
Mhm
Mary:
Or, from the story, in the book. And one thing, I loved, um, that all the little magic parts along the way and these little different vignette stories in the book, they felt like they had more of a purpose.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. And they all tied together and felt internally coherent within the world. It felt like Hans Christian Andersen’s story was just like, of course there’s a random magical enchantress witch with a magic garden who- of course there is.
Mary:
Mhm
Elizabeth:
Of course the river can choose to carry shoes around or not. Of course there is also a Snow Queen, but a hobgoblin, but a prince and a princess, but also just a regular town, but also… Like, it’s all over the place and- and in this it’s like, yeah, there’s a coherent explanation for what magic is in the world and how it functions and who uses it, and the people who use it tend to know each other and be familiar with each other. So, like- and I love that that- the thing that ties that together is it’s always the older woman who is familiar with the traditional lore who is the carrier of magic in some way. Like the grandmother who accidentally in mentioning the Snow Queen kind of calls her attention
Mary:
Mhm
Elizabeth:
And then the woman who just ha- lives in her house alone and is lonely and is like ‘Gerta will be safer here; I’ll use my magic to just convince her to stay.’ And then the even like the the elderly robber grandparents, um, have their own kind of magic about them that just comes from being experienced and old and steeped in tradition. Like, they know about the Snow Queen and they think it’s freaking hilarious that Gerta’s like got her attention because that’s great fun for them to- to laugh at her. Um, but I felt like that that was really nice and really tied everything together really well. Um.
Mary:
We also have the- the one that like at the inn with collecting tales and her friend
Elizabeth:
Yes. Yeah
Mary:
The Finn woman, and yeah
Elizabeth:
and and the extra kind of fairy tale elements. Like, ‘tell her your story’s written on a fish and like she’ll think that’s hilarious.’ Um, it- it’s all really lovely, the way that she- she makes the world feel really real and ties it all together. I thought that something that I really appreciated that she did better than the original tale is that she helped explain why Gerta was attracted to Janna, the robber girl, because it feels like in the Hans Christian Andersen story it’s just like ‘she keeps threatening to kill me with a knife, but she never did, so now she’s coming- like we’re having- we’re friends, I guess.’
Mary:
Yeah
Elizabeth:
It was like, I guess you make your own choices, but she keeps threatening you with a knife; that feels like a not friendly thing to do. Uh, and- and the the robber girl in Hans Christian Andersen–and this is true in the like animated film version that I remember growing up with–she’s very flighty and she’s very like mean, and it’s always like it’s- it’s just because she found it amusing that you’re not dead, and she’s selfish and she’s like genuinely a thief, and she’s- like, she’s not a positive person. She literally scared me when I would watch the original animated story. I was always like ‘oh my gosh, it’s the robber part; I’m gonna not watch for a moment’ when I was really little, but in this story she gets the space to become a sympathetic character. She’s still scary to Gerta at first, but then as they get to know each other they can get to appreciate each other. Um, I feel like it was a really positive, better than the original, thing that instead of Gerta just winding up with Kay by default, she has the space to have this relationship with Janna. I thought that the the romance and the discovery that they could have a romance between the, you know, the robber girl and the girl who’s just out to rescue Kay was a great character development for Gerta and was really lovely and a nice addition to the tale. So, I would say that that was better than the original. It would have been so disappointing if she just rescued Kay, um, and still wanted to be with him even though it clearly wasn’t the right choice for her. Uh. Yeah.
Mary:
In addition to that, you know, with her we saw Gerta grow and change and at the end she doesn’t go back and just stay home. She goes to visit people and to take Kay back, and then she wants to see the world. It’s like, ‘I’ve already started to experience the world and heard about it from, you know, the robber and from the raven’ and she doesn’t want to just settle at home anymore.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. She’s grown into herself as an adult, where now she has her own hopes and dreams that aren’t tied to ‘I guess I’m just gonna like weave things like my grandma and marry Kay.’ Like, she- she’s figured out that there’s more to life and more possibilities out there, and she’s eager to explore even more new possibilities instead of just settling down, and that’s really beautiful. I felt like the way the Snow Queen was defeated was so much better than in the original.
Mary:
Mhm
Elizabeth:
Didn’t just sneak in while she was gone and then accidentally spell ‘eternity’ on the floor somehow and then leave, um, like the original tale. Instead it’s- it’s a lot more about an actual, like, encounter, and it draws in the magic from earlier. Like, if you’re gonna let plants talk to Gerta, let all the plants talk to Gerta. Let’s let her communicate with that, and I liked that it brought in like this isn’t just a wall of ice, it is like ice covered actual briar thorns and it- gives she even gave the plants agency, is what I’m saying. Like, that’s beautiful.
Mary:
Take your power back!
Elizabeth:
Yeah.
Mary:
Empowering.
Elizabeth:
It- Yeah!
Mary:
And even the part with the other reindeer and having lost yourself and kind of become more reindeer had a part of the story, too, at the end. It’s like all these magic parts came together in defeating the Snow Queen.
Elizabeth:
Yeah
Mary:
Because she used that non-humanness to be able to resist the Queen’s gaze.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. And if you think about it, um, I guess another really big difference is how the reindeer presents. Like, she’s actually riding a reindeer in the original story; she’s not skinning a reindeer and wearing its skin to become a reindeer so she can run on the magic reindeer road. Which, let’s be honest, feels way more fairy tale than just riding a reindeer–good job at channeling your inner fairy tale, Kingfisher. We love it.
Mary:
Again, more fairy-tale than “The Snow Queen,” yep.
Elizabeth:
but also, the- she still gave the reindeer the agency to be able to say, you know-
Mary:
It was it’s choice, it’s consent, yeah.
Elizabeth:
‘Let me do this thing to help you, and you just help to get my skin somewhere where I’m more comfortable with it ending up.’ Like, the- the example of kind of honoring the reindeer, but also being horrified by this, but also–like, there’s a lot of- That’s the part of the story, if you need a trigger warning at any point, um, it’s for when- when Janna has to slit Gerta’s throat as a reindeer every night so that she can come out of the reindeer skin so then the- The reindeer transition back and forth. There, it gets- I- I was just sitting reading this book over Thanksgiving, and at one point, uh, my husband James was like, ‘oh, what’s happening in your book?’ because I was making faces and I was like, ‘Gerta is a reindeer now. Uh. The- Reindeer things are happening,’ and he was like, ‘what?’ and I was like, ‘I- I can’t explain. I’m gonna keep reading now.’ Then later, he was like, ‘what’s happening now?’ and I was like ‘she wasn’t a reindeer, but she’s a reindeer again. um. It just-‘
Mary:
and now she has to get cut out
Elizabeth:
‘it makes sense in context, okay?’ He was like ‘I don’t get it.’
Mary:
Yeah
Elizabeth:
Uh, but I thought that was a very creative way to keep the reindeer there, but like it felt more fairy-tale even though it’s not what was in the original tale.
Mary:
And it also tied back to the story with the robber girl tickling the reindeer’s neck with the knife.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. Yeah, she went from like-
Mary:
Maybe not the same way; it wasn’t a threat, but it became part of the story.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. Uh, it’s- she took that original element and was like, let’s make it actually good. And that’s, again, like a first for the book club. Like, across the board, if- if someone wanted to read “The Snow Queen,” I’d be like, ‘oh, cool! So, you’re gonna read The Raven and the Reindeer? Because that’s what you should read. Read that one.’
Uh, so we’ve already started to answer this, I think, but number five
What gaps did the retelling fill in that we’re missing in the original?
Mary:
Elizabeth:
Yes
Mary:
We actually feel the cold, which I think it’s a big part.
Elizabeth:
Yeah
Mary:
Because this takes place, with the setting, you’d imagine more cold, especially with bare feet, but Gerta, she has to hide under the bushes and sleep and find warmth.
Elizabeth:
Yeah, her travel feels a lot more grounded and real and difficult.
Mary:
Like the cold itself is a big element of the story.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. Her very first night out, she’s like, ‘I don’t- I hope that it’s been hours, but it could only have been minutes. I’m miserable and it’s dark and I’m scared and it’s cold and I’m singing a hymn and my feet hurt and I don’t think that I thought this through all the way.’ And it’s- it’s really, like, it immerses you in the setting in a way that you don’t get from the original story. Um. I think the explanation, too, for at least initially how Gerta can communicate with plants and birds and such is a lot more present. The whole, she soaks up the magic from being enchanted for so long, that eventually the garden can communicate with her, and then she can just talk with the raven when she meets them and the raven is like, ‘oh, yeah’ uh, later, ‘oh yeah, I can still force myself to talk to you. It’s a lot more difficult.’
Mary:
Can talk human words, but ugh
Elizabeth:
Like, ugh. Which is great because like ravens really are that smart. You- I could see a raven just being like, it wasn’t worth it before, but now that I know you’re cool, ‘hi,’ in English. But, um, there’s that initial explanation for like how she’s doing these pretty unusual things, um, and also for how- and it all ties in together for how she ultimately is able to kind of face up to the Snow Queen. Like, she- The- the magic- like, she just doesn’t have any magical ability and to such an extent that like it doesn’t enchant her in the same way, to the same strength.
Mary:
She’s an empty vessel.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. Which I-
Mary:
She can be filled with magic, but is not magic.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. I thought that was a really cool explanation for kind of part of what makes Gerta special that still leaves all of the agency and decision making in what she has, but also explains why was she able to do something against the Snow Queen when the Snow Queen’s this clearly ancient incredibly powerful figure. Um. As a complete aside that has nothing to do with any of this, I love the-
Mary:
Introduction of our last question, if you want?
Elizabeth:
Oh, you know what, that- I’ll save that for the last question. Um.
Mary:
I think we’re at that point.
Elizabeth:
I think we might be, yeah. So. Number six:
Any additional thoughts about this book?
Mary:
Yes. White chickens.
Elizabeth:
I feel like the otters are a straight upgrade.
Mary:
Like, the sleigh is the same, but the otters are way cooler and makes more sense with the setting.
Elizabeth:
And I like that even the otters get to make their own decision and have like a character to them.
Mary:
Mhm
Elizabeth:
Uh, that’s a lot of fun. But the chickens… I was- I was so much–cause I didn’t remember what pulled the Snow Queen’s sleigh, and I went to revisit the original story after reading this book, and I was like… Chickens? It was chickens? Okay. Okay. Um. So, anyway. I thought that I- I just enjoyed the otters. I have since learned horrifying facts about the real life habits of otters that I’m gonna just pretend I don’t know. Don’t- don’t look up the mating habits of otters. Just don’t do it. It will ruin your day. Uh, but I love the otters in this book. They’re great. Uh, what about you, Mary?
Mary:
They liked words and languages. Yeah. Um, I absolutely loved the raven and like I was expecting more of it in the original tale then it’s like oh the crow and then the crow’s fiance and then the crow is dead. I’m like, wait, what?
Elizabeth:
Just out of nowhere
Mary:
That’s it? And he’s gone
Elizabeth:
and the fiance’s morning and it’s just like why?
Mary:
I know. What?
Elizabeth:
Why’d you do that?
Mary:
He has such an attitude and some of the best dialogue and just explains the magic so well.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. I feel like I’d have to- I 100% would have to consult the book to remember the raven’s full name.
Mary:
Oh
Elizabeth:
Right?
Mary:
Let’s see.
Elizabeth:
But I just- I love the idea of that inclusion of ‘your human names are kind of lame and way too short and not meaningful enough. Here’s my-‘
Mary:
I quoted that part on- in my blog review. Let’s pull that up. Because I just love that whole scene.
Elizabeth:
Ah
Mary:
“I am The Sound of Mouse Bones Crunching Under the Hooves of God.”
Elizabeth:
Yes. The Sound of Mouse Bones
Mary:
“I stole very shiniest words and hoarded them all up until they made something worth having. ‘Sound’ and ‘God’ were particularly well guarded. ‘Crunching’ I found in a squirrel nest, though.”
Elizabeth:
Like, ah! So good. So good. I loved this book.
Mary:
And then she’s like, ‘oh, well that’s a complicated name’ and he’s like ‘well, your name’s like nothing’ and she’s like ‘well, it’s the same amount of letters as Hugin and- and, you know the ones- Odin’s ravens’ and he’s like ‘I don’t really have a comeback for that.’
Elizabeth:
Yeah. I appreciated that whole- he was like, ‘oh, yeah, well…pft.’
Mary:
Mhm. ‘My name’s still cool.’
Elizabeth:
Yeah. Uh. No, the raven–one of my favorite parts is just the character of the raven. I loved how the raven was like ‘excuse me while I have to reconsider my friendship with Janna because Gerta got kidnapped and she was supposed to be helped by my friend and I feel betrayed and confused.’ Like, the raven’s character is so great. Um. I loved this book. Uh
Mary:
And he’s the one that had to relay communication to the reindeer because no one else spoke reindeer
Elizabeth:
Yeah
Mary:
Gerta doesn’t automatically speak to all the animals. There has to be, you know, a reason.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. Ah. Any other, uh, additional thoughts?
Mary:
No. I think we covered everything I had, and
Elizabeth:
Yeah
Mary:
Just really enjoyed this one, and
Elizabeth:
and I will say, for a very short while at the beginning of the book, I was a little bit like perplexed slash bothered. I was like, I’m not gonna let it disrupt my enjoyment of this, but why- why doesn’t Gerta have parents? It’s only ever her grandma that’s mentioned. I don’t understand. And then, problem solved, she actually just explains it and answers ‘where’s Gerta’s parents?’ later on in the book. So, if you’re starting this book and you’re like ‘I don’t know. That’s too fairy-tale for me; I need an explanation for the the oddness of I only have my grandma and no one else and no one tells me why’, that gets answered later. It just straight up gets answered. There are no unresolved issues to be found. Um
Mary:
Not at all.
Elizabeth:
It’s a beautiful book. I- I think, whether you’re looking for just an enjoyable fairy tale retelling; or you specifically want a lot more agency-friendly, feminist, queer-friendly retelling; or you just want to just read a good book and you don’t care about fairy tales, you’ll like this book. It’s really good.
Mary:
Yeah. For being based on a made-up tale, it just felt so steeped in folklore.
Elizabeth:
Yeah.
Mary:
Even if it wasn’t
Elizabeth:
I think that’s- that’s something that I could tell the whole time, that, you know, the author did her research into the customs and the lore of this particular setting. And then, in the very end, in her, uh, was it the acknowledgments? Uh…Yeah. In her acknowledgements, uh, I- A. I love that they just start with the sentence “Hans Christian Andersen was a weird dude.” That’s fact. But also, her acknowledgments, like she’s specifically naming people who 100 percent, like, you can tell she did absolutely do the research to do justice to these languages and customs and this area of the world like the uh Nina Siviko, the Finnish Sami cultural historian, and Heli Kinnunen, a Finnish folklore major and Foxfeather Zenkova, and like- the people- like, she- she talked to people who are experts so that she could do justice to this. You can tell Hans Christian Andersen didn’t do that, A. Like, he- you know- it was very Christian.
Mary:
Random prince and princess.
Elizabeth:
Yeah
Mary:
And Christian
Elizabeth:
Just threw them in
Mary:
Yeah
Elizabeth:
but it just uh, it comes across really well. So, if you find yourself reading it and going ‘wow, I feel like this person actually cared and I feel like I might be getting an accurate depiction, or at least a pretty darn accurate depiction of some traditional lore and figures and customs,’ you totally are, and I love that. Like, that’s something I feel like has been missing in a number of fairy tales retellings I’ve read that take place, like, in cultures and regions of the world that are foreign to the author. The author doesn’t always do the correct amount of due diligence for it to feel really vibrant and real and really respectful of those areas, and I feel like massive kudos to this author; she absolutely did her homework and her research, and it comes across beautifully, and it’s still a very readable– Like, I sat down and read this over the course of, like, a few hours on Thanksgiving and loved it and immediately wanted to read it a second time. But, it’s- it’s a light, approachable, but really rich read. Which is exactly what I love most. So. Uh, any other thoughts?
Mary:
Nope.
Elizabeth:
Well, uh, across the board, as you can tell, Mary and I 100% recommend this book. I know I’m gonna go read more books by T. Kingfisher and Ursula Vernon
Mary:
Yeah, definitely
Elizabeth:
Whichever pen name she’s using. I respect her as an author and I’m excited to see she writes some horror. You’ve read at least one of her horror books, right, Mary?
Mary:
Yeah. The Twisted Ones. Another very folklore-rich, but horror.
Elizabeth:
and, if I remember correctly, you have a review of The Twisted Ones up on your blog? Did I make that up in my head?
Mary:
I’m not sure if I reviewed that one. If not, I should.
Elizabeth:
If there isn’t a review of The Twisted Ones on Mary’s blog, look forward to seeing that in the near future. Um, but, yeah. I- Come to think of it, I think I own The Twisted Ones. I might just read that one next.
Mary:
Do you?
Elizabeth:
but, definitely check out T. Kingfisher. Absolutely check out this book: The Raven and the Reindeer. And Mary and I look forward to seeing you next year for our four book picks for The Enchanted Garden Book Club. Have a wonderful end of the year, everybody, and see you next time. Bye!
Mary:
Bye!